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DISCUSSION FORUMS : Forkliftaction.communicate
Forum: Mechanical Troubleshooting
Brand: Caterpillar - Model: CAT T50
Number of messages: 22
Page: [1] 2
START MESSAGE:
ddrr
Alberta, Canada 		We have a CAT P5000 forklift in the shop with a nissan engine(propane) and it is constantly flashing code e-34. Checked with local Cat dealer, says it is an overheating code but the temp gauge is always normal. Checked all wiring/fuses and connections, looked ok, tried the procedure given by dealer to clear code but it didn't work.
Could not find a temp sensor in the cylinder head.
Anyone have any idea what to look for?

Posted 27 Jul 2006 10:11 AM Reply  Report this message
REPLIES: Sort replies by
82elky
Texas, United States 		You have the 4 cylinder engine.  If this is true, E-34 is actually an ignition system error.  It most likely has occured due to a misfire at some point in time.  I'd start by checking the plugs and then move into other ignition system components (coils and their wiring).

Posted 27 Jul 2006 11:38 PM Reply  Report this message
justinm
New York, United States

 		the procedure to clear code is this

1st take off the floorboard as the pedal stops may not let u fully depress the pedal and the computer will ignore u
also the timing of this is very important use a stop watch or i count sayin "one-one-thousand, two-one-housand etc" and u have to count out to the end of the last second
also if the pedal pot isnt adjust right it wont work either but ud prob get a code e-23 if that was the case)
its very hard to do it cause alot of the techs i work with have trouble getting the timing right and they loose paitence

turn key on

after 3 seconds (no less no more)

fully depress the pedal and release it 5 times within 5 seconds (or less)

then keep the pedal released for 7 full seconds (count out a full seven-one-thousand and move to the next step as u begin to say 8 BUT dont say 8 say 1-one-thousand to  start the next step count i kniow this is a lil confusing and its easier to explain on the phone)

fully depress and hold the pedal for 10 full seconds

at that point the display will change slightly the errors in memory will be displayed in order of most recent to oldest and will show the hours at wich the error occured after it shows the code (blinking)thats how u know u got into the diagnostics

to clear after this point hold the pedal another 10 seconds (full) and the dash will flash the current hours

to get out of pedal diagnostics turn key off

and yes a 34 isnt a cooling problem  a 33 would have been that
34 is
"ignition signal - ignition signal has not been continuaously generated while engine is running - ignition system fault [e34] - 2 trips to set" (i think there is a typo in my manual since it says *power transmission signal* and not transistor but everything in this section relates to the transistors in the coils)
2 trips means the failure happend two consecutive times (trip is defined as turning key on running and shuttin engine off)

"ignition signal (power transistor drive signal[coil signal])"
to check this u have to check the  waveforms with an oscilloscope on pins 61,62,80,81of the ecm (in relation to ground)
ud need the book to see the refrence waveform (page ec-67)

check the plugs like 82elky said
check for dirt, damage, or wear to the insulator
check the plug terminal for looseness (some screw on)
check insulator for cracks or damage
check for oil water or dust contamination
make sure the gap is correct
      spark plug gap - 0.8mm - 0.9mm

check the ignition coils (power transistor)
check at room temp
check resistance between the terminals of each coil
1st term i list will be where the positive lead goes and the second will be were the neg lead gos (of course) and they reccomend using an analog meter because the standard is different for a digital meter

(+) - (-)
1 - 2 - not 0 ohms and not infinate ohms
2 - 1 - not 0 ohms and not infinate ohms
3 - 1 - exept 0 ohms (no direct short should show resistance)
1 - 3 - exept 0 ohms
3 - 2 - exept 0 ohms
2 - 3 - exept 0 ohms
repeat for each coil


ask an admin for my email if u need further help and complain to ur dealer they sent u on a wild goose chase with the cooling system and they should check the manual b4 they give out info and ask them to copy and fax u pages ec-67 and ec-68  (ignition system) for the waveform refrences ( bad news on that though you will probably need the breakoutbox for the harness to check waveforms or be real good at backprobing dont strip the wires as u might let moisture in and ull have alot of problems later)

well good luck hope this helps

Modified 30 Jul 2006 02:34 AM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
justinm
New York, United States

 		o and btw a cat t50 is a 1980s style cat forklift not the latest generation (tier2 emisions) that u have so this is in the wrong section for quicker replies and better exposure post in the technical area since these are tough to navigate unless ur lookin for something specific

Posted 30 Jul 2006 02:14 AM Reply  Report this message
justinm
New York, United States

 		1 other check too
check the harness
check continuity on thos wires i mentioned before
cyl # 1 ecm terminal 62 to terminal 1 on the # 1 coil
cyl # 2 ecm terminal 81 to terminal 1 on the # 2 coil
cyl # 3 ecm terminal 61 to terminal 1 on the # 3 coil
cyl # 4 ecm terminal 80 to terminal 1 on the # 4 coil

terminal 2 on the coil plugs are all connected to ground

terminal 3 on the coil goes to terminal 5 of the ignition coil relay (most of the relays are found in the blue or red box on the side of the frame i forget wich 1 exactly at the moment and wich slot its in so ask the dealer that too)

count the cyls closest to fan is #1 and closest to tranny is # 4
unplug the harness and backprobe connectors (on the harness)if u can or be carefull not to damage the terminals in the plugs

Modified 30 Jul 2006 02:30 AM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
ddrr
Alberta, Canada 		Thanks for the info gang, I'll try it all and let you knwo how it
goes
ddrr

Posted 1 Aug 2006 09:09 AM Reply  Report this message
mike_n
Alberta, Canada 		As for being sent on a 'wild goose chase'...

Levitt has some definate employee-skill problems here in Edmonton, but they are trying to fix it.

When Finning pulled out, the skill left as well.

Posted 13 Aug 2006 03:20 AM Reply  Report this message
justinm
New York, United States

 		lol all dealers are having employee skill problems as there seems to be a skilled labor shortage out there
unskilled labor is a dime a dozen and theyre showing up in skilled positions ...not good

Posted 25 Aug 2006 08:20 AM Reply  Report this message
justinm
New York, United States

 		lol i would hope the service guy that he called that gave him the code 33 info woulda have told him it could possibly be covered by warranty but with all those codes in his head he might have forgotten lol
but i assumed he knew his warranty on emmision components (including the ecm and im pretty sure the coils) was up (3500+ hours)
if that is not the case id be tripple pissed at the dealer

how long does it take to open a book and check a code to be certain and not just assume your memory is photographic
assumption is the mother of all f**k ups i always say lol
how many days did this guy look at cooling sensors that were fine b4 he posted here
i replied cause i got that book sittin next to me i opened it and gave the correct info
takin a code off the top of ur head sitting in an office with the book on a shelf that has the correct info is just lazy
what if that was a tech asking his TC for a solution and this guy was paying hourly how much labor would have been wasted by not opening the book (im a TC btw as well as a road tech)
whats a code 46 on an ev100lx is it the 3 rec with dirty f&r tips or is it the 5 or 2 rec with dirty buss bars and wires between them and 1c?
open a book save the headache

well on cost of repair problems i could start a whole thread
fact is if customers took care of their equipment properly alot of these high dollar repairs wouldnt be nessesary
im a tech in a very busy metro ny dealership (nyc long island parts of jersey and southern ny)for 8 years
most problems i see that require expensive repairs usually stem from maintanence breakdown at the operator level
ie daily checklists and checking water levels of batteries

i have a cutomer who is a plastic products manufaturer
he has a 2006 nissan powered machine (like the 1 above diff color lol)
2006 6000 pound (capacity [3000 kilos for u canadians lol]) 48v sitdiwn and 2000 5000 pound hyster 36v
he runs 10 lines of injection molding at a cost of a million a line (ive been told of the cost by the supervisor)
this plant runs 24-7
they have 1 battery per electric machine and all machines run all hours
they use the electrics until the lift cutout kicks in charge it for 15 mins and go another 2 hours
in 4 months neither machine ever recieved more than 2 hours on a charge
the meters arnt even close anymore
when all his contactor tips melted he accused me of messing up his machine (the supervisor) then i had to explain y we charge batteries properly and the ill effects of undercharging (volts drop and resistance and heat build infinantly and the effect that has on brushes boards tips etc)
this is not an isolated incident i can only think of a handfull of customers who run multishifts that utilize swapping batteries
also the guy who buys a propane and dosnt get the oil changed for 3 years after the purchase and cant understand y his engine ticks
and to get cheap on the machines that move the profits never makes sense to me since unless its cronic (like my 1st customer i mentioned) the repairs will work out to pay for themselves

"how many guys will u need to hire to move all this stuff onto that truck by hand and how much longer will that take to move the same load?"

on a nissan platnium wich is virtually the same machine as the 1 mentioned above we were called in cause they where having 0 success with the local nissan dealer in fixing the 7 or so machines like this
one machine coded out for a bad potentiometer on the gas pedal (for 3 months) it would only go idle speed
to lift the cust would position the machine shut it off and lift while starting to get a boost in rpm
so i hook up my laptop and adjust the pot so it looks good on the screen and it works
customer then tells me the nissan dealer had at least 9 visits with 5 diff techs for the same problem and i was the 1st guy to produce a laptop or service tool of any kind my bill was 1 hour labor and no callbacks on that to date (6 months or so)

if t

Modified 26 Aug 2006 08:05 AM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
proshadetree
Tennessee, United States

 		dont have my book handy but you can clear the codes on the first version with an automotive type scanner that is obd2.Look under the cup holder at the plug.The angeled end one is the only one this trick will work on.We have cleared sevral codes that have never came back.This will not read codes only clear them.If they come back you have a problem.As far as I know the IBM version is only sold to dealers.It no only clears but tells you what code is and probable cause and gives you a check list.

Posted 13 Sep 2006 12:39 AM Reply  Report this message
justinm
New York, United States

 		i think ur talking about the tb45 nissan inline engine
that had an automotive type plug
when i went to the factory for training in houston i only saw that plug  on the large frame machine with an inline 6 and u needed a 2000 dollar nissan obd type handset to program it and i did wonder what an off the shelf reader could do (it had a cartridge specific to the engine for industrial use)
the k21/25 plug directly into the vcm no were near the previously mentioned plug
and the tier 2 vortech v6 and the early 2004 model tier 2 4g63/64 used a 4 pin plug that u can jump out 2 pins with a paper clip to flash error codes with the mil but those 2 pins escape me at the moment
when i was in houston the previously mentioned paper clip was given to the techs as "a free bonus service tool courtesy of MCFA " lol
maybe u mean built for nissan trucks that used the same scanner that the tb45 but u didnt tell us the brand

etharp i always say "if u think u make enough money youve lost your motivation" and the offers are always more than what i made b4 i had to tell my boss and he needs to "convince" me not to quit
hehe
i have about 7 of these nissan stickerd in a busy air-cargo wharehouse near JFK int airport
they run 24hrs 7 days theyve overheated alot as in popped alot of hoses etc (mostly from the abuse they suffer and the filthy enviroment they are in) and i get a call on "how do u clear an overheat code ? again??" my other shop handles them i only go there when other techs cant figure technical stuff out ...like how to adjust a pot lol

and etharp ive read alot of ur posts and u i can tell u know what ur talkin about never meant to seem combative or anything
i just tried to say in way too many words "its tough to find good help"
and knee jerk reactions to codes are nothing new
unamed parties seem to enjoy sending techs on wild goose chases with ev100 codes thats y i began to carry the flightsystems ge technical library in my van amongst countless other manuals cluttering up the passenger side lol
Modified 13 Sep 2006 01:46 PM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
justinm
New York, United States

 		was there a different style vcm at the time
i figured they would have mentioned that i was at houston around thanksgiving 2004 for the tier 2 train the trainer course and they didnt talk about a k21/25 having a plug like that
did those trucks have a different vcm?

we dont have to many tb45's in service in my area but the few that we do have around have been pretty much problem free so i havnt needed to order any service tools to diagnose them

i do remember them tellin us that the hitachi unit was sold at cost at the time  

also down there we used the Panasonic Toughbook for laptop programs
what a great laptop with a touch screen but very pricey

Modified 13 Feb 2007 02:26 PM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
daniel_g
Flevoland, Netherlands 		And since when would that stop Bob..........somebody simply telling him not to do something!

The OB2 connection under the cup holder was never widely publicised as at the launch in 2004 we already had diagnostic software available that could read both VCM and ECM codes, unlike the Hitachi tool which only gives you ECM access.

In all honesty Bob probably did not know it was there because we did not use the Hitachi tooling or have it availability at the time of introduction as I say we were focussed on our GSE.

The OBD2 connection on the 1.5-3.5 ton (3000-7000 lb) was unnecessary really, so of course from a production stand point removal of it was a cost saving.

In terms of VCM changes there have been no major changes.

Posted 29 Sep 2006 08:42 PM Reply  Report this message
proshadetree
Tennessee, United States

 		Plug was under cupholder of C3000 -C6000and p5000-p6000 early trucks
Very few codes can be pulled from it but never had one I couldnt clear from it.Makes it very handy being that software shop has is first version with no clear code funtion.Also I have replaced 3 coils on diffrent trucks due
to missfire code.Now that software keeps asking for ser#
maybe they will update it.

-------------------------
"Work leads to profit, mere talk leads to poverty"

Modified 11 Oct 2006 06:58 PM
by poster. 		Reply  Report this message
justinm
New York, United States

 		bob is great with his hippe-tron and homo-tron diagnostics jokes (smoked and blown fuses lol!)

Posted 13 Feb 2007 02:28 PM Reply  Report this message
proshadetree
Tennessee, United States

 		Plugs are back hello teir 3

Posted 8 Apr 2007 08:03 AM Reply  Report this message
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