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Nissan Model CYB02 F & R problem

Number of messages: 11

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luis_v
Mexico

Hi Everyone-

I am involved in Nissan forward and reverse problem.
The initial problem was to change the directional handle(very loose), I did it and after that, the unit can not move either forward or reverse, I have checked pumps and they are ok, also the traction motor by push in main and forward contactors.

Brand - Nissan
Electric - Control using a SCR (it is not familiar to me)
Model - CYB02
Serial - CYB02 - 000380
Capacity - 5000 lb

Let me know where to start, the control is not familiar to me and I do not want to perform more complicated problems.

Battery voltage is 36.7

The unique contactor is operated is the steer one none else.

Thank you

Posted 9 May 2007 08:37 AM

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Jplayer
North Carolina, United States

luis_v,
i assume the truck worked before you changed the directional control handle?
And now it doesnt?
I'd double check the wiring at the plug where it plugs into the harness in the steering column.
Make sure the contact configuration is the same as the old one inside the plug connector.
Check the wire colors or number and make sure they are the same.
In other words, compare the two and make sure they are the same.
If there is a mfg part number on a label somewhere on it see if they match.

There could be more than one handle/switch assy that might fit on that truck for different control systems.

Could of just gotten the wrong one.

Let us know what u find out.

Laterz,

-------------------------
John Player Jr

Modified 9 May 2007 09:57 AM
by poster.

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micky
west sussex, United Kingdom

hi you should take the back off the direction switch and check the contacts. direction contactor should activate as soon as you select a direction even before you touch the accelerator. check for a negative feed to the contactors. bo2s had a common fault,check the negative supply to the main control card socket and possible burn out tracks on the card where the black wires go in. also there was sometimes an extra card near the direction switch which checked switch was in neutral. you can unplug this and connect the other plugs together.if the contactors activate but still no traction check the accelerator unit. hope this helps.

Posted 10 May 2007 05:46 AM

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luis_v
Mexico

i assume the truck worked before you changed the directional control handle?
-- Yes this is right, after I changed it It does not work, just hyd and steering works fine.
And now it doesnt?
-- right!
I'd double check the wiring at the plug where it plugs into the harness in the steering column.
-- I have checked wiring continuity between rear and steering colum and they seems to be ok.
Make sure the contact configuration is the same as the old one inside the plug connector.\
-- I will open and compare them, I will let you know what I got.
Check the wire colors or number and make sure they are the same.
-- I have done a continuity test and it seems to be fine.

In other words, compare the two and make sure they are the same.
-- I will check it out... when I bought I passed a serial number as well as the model to get it.
If there is a mfg part number on a label somewhere on it see if they match.
-- ok

There could be more than one handle/switch assy that might fit on that truck for different control systems.
-- nothing to say

Could of just gotten the wrong one.
-- I did check in neutral position and compare them and I saw there is something like this:

Old one pin configuration

--  --
--  --  --   In neutral position these terminal have continuity.

New one pin configuration

--  --
--  --  --    In neutral position these conections have not continuity.

The point here, is tha I tried to put back the old one and it does not work at all.

I also found that at the time I selected "R" the +36VDC arrives at both contactors F&R but none where operated.
After it I found a crystal diode in short, that was why I got at the same time VDC in both coils contactors.

That condition was not in F direction selected.

However, the problem is still there, the only contactor is operated at the time I select either F or R is the steering one.

Let us know what u find out.
--  sure I will as soon as I fix it (I hope)

Laterz,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Micky -

-- I will open the direction box and will tell you .
-- There is not any contactor activation as soon as I select the direction, the only one is the steering one.
-- the accelerator seems like it does not exists at all, I opend it and, I found a variable magnetic field with electronics asociated.
-- I just cathed the + feed coming from the direction switch (I think), I have not the negative feed, reason why I forced it and the contactor was energized. I think the negative feed will be provided by the control card (???).
-- I checked the main control card and there is not any melted trace.
-- I found the card close by the direction switch but it have only diodes and some power resistors which I checked them and seems to be ok. Also there is a regulator.
-- I connected direct the direction switch to the connector which goes to the rear but I just blow out the fuse 10 and besdie that, nothing happened.

I garb a few pages of the manual (not a good readable) and started testing the 4 channels mentioned on it.

ch1 - MPS and accelerator test : tester negative lead to negative, positive lead to ch1 8.8vdc, then push down the accelerator pedal and, it must reach around 1-2 volts. This test has not been passed.
ch2 - accelerator test: 8.8vdc and pushing accel pedal down at 1-2 vdc. this test is according the manual.
ch3 - ground continuity. this was ok
ch4 - 9.9 vdc : test ok.

I am not sure what elese I cand do.
I am not sure if the main control card got damage by the new direction switch as well as the directional diode I found in short.

Also, I have tested the voltage between capacitor leads and it just got charge at 20.5 vdc. Does this is correct?
I have checked the capacitor charge path and it is ok.
I pull out the main control card and, the capacitor got charged at 35 vdc, is this right? as soon as push in the capacitor went to 20.5vdc.

any more recomendat

Posted 11 May 2007 01:33 PM

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Jplayer
North Carolina, United States

hi luis_v,

well sir this is why i said to double check on the part configuration

1) you said this:
"Old one pin configuration

--  --
--  --  --   In neutral position these terminal have continuity.

New one pin configuration

--  --
--  --  --    In neutral position these conections have not continuity.
"
now from the looks of that comment you have a reversed polarity contact configuration in the directional switch which is why i questioned it being the right part.

which brings me to the part where u said afterwards that you reinstalled the old one and it "now" doesnt work.
and you found a diode shorted?
well....there ya go....
the new directional control is the wrong one because of it's internal configuration being incorrect and now it has blown the diode in the contactor circuit.

The fact that the continuity in both directional controls are backwards when you test them tells the story now...

does this make sense to you?

now dont get me wrong, i'm not trying to be a smartallic but  this is a no brainer ;)
even though you had the part supplier (dealer) look up the part by model and serial number of the truck this doesnt necessiarily mean its the right part. I run into this often because of unknown service bulletins or the parts personel's lack of knowing of updated parts from service grams etc. Or possibly a serial number break during a parts changeover on the assembly line, sometimes some lot ranges of trucks dont get the current upgrades for new parts for some unknown reasons. But none the less it happens and puts the mechanic in a bad way when he tries to diagnose and repair a machine based on the model and serial number. And last but not least, the part could of been packaged wrong.. Any of these things could be why.... but you check it out and see what you find out and let us know.
Caterpillar is notorious for this and i'm sure nissan isnt immune to this either.

Now since the dealer gave you the wrong part it seems to me that they at this point in time could be responsible for the further damage to the system because of thier incompetence of getting you the "right" part.
I'd look into it.
and "be firm" with them and make them make it right!

good luck
Laterz,

-------------------------
John Player Jr

Modified 11 May 2007 03:39 PM
by poster.

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luis_v
Mexico

Jplayer - This is what I have to tell, the handledirection switch is the same, I have opened both of them and they are the same electrical and physical. I take off the SCR's (two of them) and tested them with artificail load and they are working fine. I am having a 22 VDC between SCR's control panel and chassis I am not sure if this can give me this kind of problem. I take off the battery and it is the same. I would like to asked you for a readable schematic diagram, I have one, but it is something like you are reading under water. I am not sure if the capacitor got the battery voltage as soon as I turn on the key, I just got 20.5 vdc, EV100 has a condition to get fully charged the capacitor to start firing the main SCR, in this case, it is not reaching that level or it is a different condition in a Hitachi controller.

Posted 13 May 2007 08:34 AM

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Jplayer
North Carolina, United States

hello luis_v,
well this is good you have established that both control handles are the same.
I was afraid they weren't from the way you were explaining things to begin with.

you removed the #2 and #5 rec's and they test ok? the gate and dont fail a load/bleed test?
good

well most certainly voltage to the frame isnt exactly good but is pretty common if battery case is compromised. But since you removed the battery and still have voltage to the frame then your problem is elsewhere.
I would check the motors(all of them) and make sure the fields and commontators are good(no external grounds) outside the system. Then go from there. Finding grounds in a system can be tedious sometimes but a wire/cable or some component is causing this problem. You just have to find it. Check ALL the wiring harness's, even in the control panel area. Check where the common ground for the system is(usually a standoff or terminal strip). I dont have any schematics for that truck so i wont be much help there.
All i can do is suggest the most obvious things that the EV100 systems fail at. In my experience the rec's are the weak points. But since your having a control circuit failure it could be even the control card itself. But that is a last resort.

Let me check into my ev100 troubleshooting checklists and see what the most common problems with contactor operations are and i'll get back to you.

Laterz,

-------------------------
John Player Jr

Modified 13 May 2007 03:13 PM
by poster.

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Jplayer
North Carolina, United States

well etharp,
we hope that was the first thing he did before even posting on here
thats the #1 rule of thumb besides checking the battery when these things arrise. ;)

Laterz,

-------------------------
John Player Jr

Posted 14 May 2007 01:48 AM

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luis_v
Mexico

Today this problem has been solved.
I decide to take off the main control card and check at component level. I found a little SRC's shorted which signaling always a neutral position it does not matter if I select F-R. of course I have determinated this after follow tracks and compare with the poor schematic I got. Also, I notice ther is(was) a EVS tool to diagose this main controller, but I think it is very rare to find it Today.
The scr component code is CW01C by Hitachi (scr GAK flat front view) which it is not in the market these days and I soldering a MCR100-6 (scr KGA front view) just I take care about leads position.

Thanks eveyone for your help and support.

Luis

PS. I got some poor schematics for this unit which can help anyone in the future.

Posted 15 May 2007 12:09 AM

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